ceiling after he's already said it's unpatriotic to exceed the debt ceiling in 2007-2008. he's in a very, very tough place. i think the republicans in the house in congress will give him a hard time, won't make it an easy checkbook. they'll ask for something in return, not sure what it's going to be. they'll probably get it, some negotiation, but, again, we already exceed the debt ceiling. $16.4 trillion tim geithner, fudges numbers around, pay the bills until congress signs the increase in debt ceiling. >> a repeat of the fiscal cliff? >> that's what politics is in dc. this is all games, all threats, all the clock is ticking down. makes you worry if the country's going to default. >> eric, here's the thing -- >> at the end of the day, sorry -- >> yeah. at the enof the day, there's a deal. >> yeah, this is like the debt ceiling is a phony argument. it's really about charter renewal. it's a renewal of a charter do continue spending, and what time and again the american people have been misled on the debt ceiling, what we are talking about you can't default. the government c